A conversation with AF founder Lisa King + NZ unveils A.I strategy at last
PLUS: Get your FREE ticket to our next person event and new secretive OpenAI feature spotted in the wild.
Welcome to mid week!
We made it to hump day again and I am proud of all of us. Another stacked newsletter this morning, including a conversation with a phenomenal founder and plenty of news to parse. Let’s get into it!
Here’s what’s in your Daily Shot of news you don’t want to miss
Becoming successful AF: A check in with AF founder Lisa King
New Zealand unveils A.I strategy (finally)
Event: The Systems and Stories of Scale
Pod Pick: NBR Rod Drury’s Vision for NZ
New OpenAI feature spotted in the wild
Got a tip, press release or just a comment? Drop us a note: hello@caffeinedaily.co - we love to hear from you.
Finn & the Caffeine team
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Becoming successful AF: A conversation with AF founder Lisa King
In a world increasingly mindful of health and wellness, AF stands out as a trailblazer in the non-alcoholic beverage industry. Co-founded by Lisa King, AF has achieved remarkable success, particularly in the competitive US market, by making not drinking well, cool AF.
I caught up with Lisa recently to look forward to the company’s latest raise and back to exploring how the brand has captivated consumers and challenged traditional notions of drinking.
She offers invaluable advice for aspiring founders on global expansion, underlining the importance of confidence, authentic brand identity, and realistic capital planning. With a new launch in the UK and continued growth in the US, AF is poised to further redefine the non-alcoholic landscape.
Answers have been edited for length and clarity
Congratulations on the surging success of AF - what do you credit it to?
First and foremost, particularly with a product like ours, it’s taste. Everyone has had bad experiences with non-alcoholic products, so that was a huge barrier for us to overcome. We spent a lot of time perfecting the taste to make something that actually feels like you're having an elevated cocktail experience. Then, there's our secret ingredient, Afterglow, which delivers that spirit burn and warming feeling you get from alcohol. People are often surprised there’s no alcohol. It’s still really big because we're seeing lots of new launches in the non-alcoholic space, particularly in the US. People think it's just canning some water or flavors, but it's not that simple. The brands that have done well are delivering that full drinking experience. Afterglow is a trademarked ingredient, and we haven't seen anyone else with an ingredient that delivers the same mouthfeel and feeling, which we think is so important.
The other part of it is the brand. It’s so beautiful and hasn't changed its architecture since we first started four and a half years ago. It feels like a real heritage brand with a lot of timelessness, mixed with the modern, cheeky vibe of the brand name itself, AF, and how we bring the communications to life. We’ve had people stop by our stand at trade shows saying, "I don't even know what this is, but I just love the brand, so I wanted to come and find out." So, yeah, I think it's a really modern, fun, cheeky brand that anyone would be happy to be seen with.
Talk more about that. What are some of those elements of the brand that you add to that timelessness?
We were always clear that we wanted a global brand. Our drinks are manufactured locally where they’re sold, so we never wanted to be tied to a specific heritage back in New Zealand. The brand very much stands on its own. We use classic marble patterns, which we create ourselves using the old printmaking method of oil and water, making original prints. We took a lot of inspiration from perfumes, with the classic box, like Chanel No. 5, and similar fonts. We worked with Arch MacDonnell, one of the best graphic designers. There are subtle cues to timelessness and what you'd expect from a really old brand, like the little gold emblem on the front. But if you actually read it, it says "established AF," with no date. Design is funny because it's all the little elements that add up to a person's impression of it. We get so much feedback, particularly in the US, as they have quite a different aesthetic. Some packaging there looks like it was done in PowerPoint.
One thing that strikes me about AF as a brand is that you manage a clever balance of promoting health without being scoldy - can you speak to that?
Absolutely. We are not a judgy brand whatsoever. Early on we looked at other categories like smoking. You could talk to people all day long about how smoking is bad for you, and people will still smoke. People don’t want to be preached at or judged. So, we’re very, very conscious that you’ll never see in our communications us talking badly about alcohol, or saying "you shouldn't do this or that." We took the opposite approach: actually, if we just made it so freaking cool and sexy and fun to not have to have alcohol, and show people doing the same things – partying, socializing, and just having a really great time, but they just haven’t spent on alcohol – if we could create this aspirational world and make people want to be a part of that, then that’s how we’re going to bring them in. People aren’t going to stop drinking; it’s been around for how long? I think that’s why we will never talk about or try to tell people not to drink.
How do you see the movement in this sector over the last couple of years, and how has AF been intersecting with it?
I think it's become more socially acceptable not to drink, whereas before it wasn't at all, as you yourself experienced when you first stopped drinking. So, I think there's that. One of the things we try to do at AF is share stories of well-known people who have a different relationship with alcohol, and you kind of go, "Oh, Pharrell doesn't drink, and Bradley Cooper doesn't drink," and all these amazing people don't drink. More and more celebrities are coming out saying, "I'm not drinking now." So it's just become this more socially acceptable thing that's going on. And then now, there are better options. Five years ago, you couldn't really find anything in a bar. I remember going to a bar when we first launched and we're like, "What are your non-alc options?" They're like, "Oh, Red Bull." You're like, "I don't want to drink that all night." And so now, there are definitely more options, and we're seeing particularly in hospitality, they're catching up with what people are asking for. It's gone from something acceptable to something aspirational, which is such a good key shift.
Subscribers can check out the full column below
Becoming successful AF: A conversation with AF founder Lisa King
Becoming successful AF: A check in with AF founder Lisa King
New Zealand unveils A.I strategy (finally): Well someone in Government must have heard me complaining about a lack of strategic direction in the most important technology of our time and now here we go, the long gestating policy has been unveiled.
Nerds can read the full thing linked in the offical Govt press release here but tl;dr is that Government essentially wants to get out of the way, not introduce new legislation, not build our own models and leverage our existing strengths to capitalise on the potential of emerging tech.
It’s a very sunny, business forward approach to A.I which I am sure will please many in the techno utopian camp (which I definitely at least camp alongside) but there is some understandable pushback already.
Dr Andrew Lensen, Senior Lecturer/Programme Director of Artificial Intelligence, Te Herenga Waka—Victoria University of Wellington, commented:
“As expected, the Government’s AI Strategy is heavy on economic growth opportunities but worryingly light on the ethical and societal issues of AI.”
What’s particularly relevant to the founder community is the supplementary document produced alongside the top level report, the Responsible AI Guidance for Businesses. The document succintly but effectively covers a wide range of issues from governance, technical details and legal compliance without drowning you in detail.
There’s also a very useful compilation of existing resources and frameworks for anyone who feels overwhelmed at the scope of existing information, which I feel must surely be all of us.
Event: The Systems and Stories of Scale - Look, you’re just going to have to get used to me yelling at you about this for the next few weeks so for everyone who has already signed up, you can skip to the next section.
Join us for an insightful and revealing fireside chat with James Hurman (Previously Unavailable) and Shannon Scott (SVP, Global Head of Product at Airwallex). Together, they’ll unpack the hidden infrastructure behind scale: payments, workflows, capital flow and the equally essential brand scaffolding: positioning, emotional resonance, and customer connection. Perfect for founders wondering how to scale both what they do and how they’re remembered.
We’ll also be having an exclusive closed door dinner with James, Shannon and some very special guests directly after the dinner.
Date and time
Wed, 30 Jul 2025 5:30 PM - 7:30 PM NZST
Location
The Assembly at Britomart 11 Britomart Place #level 10 Auckland
Cost
$55 but free for Caffeine community + 1 with promo code CAFFEINEFRIENDS
Pod Pick: NBR Rod Drury’s Vision for NZ: I usually write a vaguely Caffeinated intro to these podcast picks but honestly Simon Shepherd’s lede for this episode of the NBR podcast is way better than what I’d write so here you go: ”The company he co-founded is now worth $30 billion. And, according to the NBR Rich List, Rod Drury is worth a couple of those. He is about to be inducted into the Business Hall of Fame but that doesn’t mean he’s resting on his laurels. In fact, Drury is pursuing a grand renewable energy vision for New Zealand.”
Listen to it here. A very good interviewer chatting to a legend. What’s not to like. It’s even outside the paywall so there’s no excuse.
OpenAI is cooking something up called ‘Study Together’: I love it when we just spot a new feature for a major company in the wild before it’s unveiled formally. This one has magically appeared in a few GPT drop down menus of late, named ‘Study Together’.
Personally, I find A.I chatbots most useful when they’re prompting me rather than me prompting them. Whenever I want to learn something and need it dumbed down to golden retriever level (which is most topics, honestly), I ask GPT to draft me up some of the key introductory terms and themes in an easily digestible format and then generate a series of quizes which test how well I’ve retained the knowledge.
If this new feature is some kind of bespoke tutor that remembers past conversations and helps you upskill in whatever area you want to learn, the potential for some genuinely transformative new applications for A.I could be on the horizon.
That’s it for today, thanks for reading. Want to get in touch with a news tip, bit of feedback or just to chat? Email hello@caffeinedaily.co
